tv FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX News November 1, 2009 6:00pm-7:00pm EST
fox. wallace's ex-clue suv interview with rush limbaugh. i'm shannon bream. thanks for watching fox. captioned by, closed captioning services, inc. >> chris: i'm chris wallace and this is "fox news sunday." rush limbaugh speaks out. the king of conservative talk radio on president obama. >> what has he done for and to the country? >> chris: on the state of the gop. why aren't people turning to the republicans? and on himself. what did you learn from drug rehab? rush limbaugh in a "fox news sunday" exclusive. then, big governor's races tuesday in virginia and new jersey. carl cameron has the latest from bothleground states and major garrett looks at what the elections mean to the white house. we will ask our sunday group brit, mara, bill and juan if it
will become law, all right now on "fox news sunday." and hello again from fox news in washington. news out of afghanistan, abdullah has dropped out saying karzai refused to reform the election process to prevent more massive fraud. we willle have more on that story later. now, to the interview with rush limbaugh. whether you love him or can't stand him, he is a major player on the american political scene. for three hours a day, five days a week, he tells listeners exactly what he thinks on more than 600 radio stations across the country. we traveled to palm beach this week where rush does his show for a rare interview. discussing everything from politics to whether he is really worth that huge amount of money he makes. >> chris: rush, welcome to "fox news sunday." >> thank you, appreciate it. >> chris: this week it will be one year since barack obama was
elected president. in that time, what has he done for and to the country? >> i think it is all to, i don't think there is any for. chris i'm really, really worried. we have never seen this kind of radical leadership at such a high level of power in the country. i believe that the economy is under siege and being destroyed. anybody with any economic literacy would not do one thing this administration has done to try to revitalize the private sector, they are destroying it. i have to think it is on purpose. a denial of liberty and attack on freedom. just a couple of days ago they talked about the 650,000 jobs that they created or saved. they destroyed jobs, they lost .3 million jobs in the country since the stimulus plan and it
will get worse. >> chris: how about save the country from a financial abyss, 3.5% growth in the third quarter in gdp? >> there wasn't any growth in the private sector. it came from two things. government spending on cash for clunkers. they moved fourth quarter auto sales into the third quarter and the first-time home buyer thing. gdp equals cig. consumers, investment and government. there were no new jobs being created. we are losing them. >> chris: how about kept the country safe for nine months? >> i don't know how safe we are. iran is nuking up. everything that we asked them to do they are forgetting. they are not going to move their plutonium, enriched plutonium or uranium out of the country. we are dithering in afghanistan. i don't think we are better off in any way that could be measured. >> chris: you have now taken to calling mr. obama the man child
president. >> right. >> what does that mean. he is a child. i think he has got a five minute career. he was in the senate for 150 days. he was a community organizer in chicago for however, number of years. he reill reconcile really has e running anything. he is, yes, young. he has an out of this world ego. he is very narcissistic and able to focus all the attention on him all the time. he is immature, inexperienced, in over his head. >> chris: talk about a couple of the big issues that the president is dealing with now. first of all, afghanistan you suggest that he is taking all of the time of what to do in afghanistan to keep his left wing base on board for healthcare reform? >> it is partly that but i also don't think he cares that much about it. >> chris: come on. >> i know this is going to sound controversial but i don't think he cares -- chris, if he
cared about it, we have soldiers and their families worrying about what we are going to do. the general on the ground said we need more troops. the policy that he implemented in march he now doesn't like and is trying to figure out how best to make everybody happy here politically on his side of the aisle and also for his image. democratdemocrats have a ten de seen as weak on defense. he is battling with that. if he cared about victory, he said about afghanistan victory is not something he is comfortable with, the concept, it reminds him of the japanese surrendering on the uss missouri and made him uncomfortable. he wants to manage this rather than achieve victory. he says these things. i don't know if people actually listen and have them register when does. >> chris: you say that you don't know that he cares. do you give him credit for going to dover delaware to honor the remains of dead soldiers who came back from
afghanistan. >> the politically correct thing to say here would be oh, yes, i'm very impressed that president obama decided to go show his concern for the remains, troops who have given their lives for freedom in this country. it was a photo op because he is having big-time trouble on the whole afghanistan dithering situation. he found one family that would allow photos to be taken. none of the others did. and when you have a sick media following you around and applying whatever you want, he can create the improtesters ex-that he has all this -- impression that he has all this great concern. bush did this but there were no cameras. >> chris: i don't know that he ever went to dover delaware. >> he went to see the families. >> chris: he went to see the familys. >> but he didn't take photo ops out of it. >> chris: the argument would be that it was political of bush not to be seen with the coffins because he was trying to hide it, hide the cost of war from the american people.
>> well, i have the benefit of knowing george bush a little bit and i have seen him cry talking about missions that he has ordered. i think he has a great profound deep respect for the families of all military personnel and those who have died. >> chris: i don't disagree with that. >> and he is not going use them. >> chris: you don't think that barack obama has a profound respect for our soldiers and the families giving the sacrifice? >> throughout the iraq war it was barack obama and the democratic party which actively south the defeat of the u.s. military. they convened hearings and accused general petraeus of lying and said the surge would not work. harry reid stands up and waves the white flag, this war is lost. jack murtha is out saying the marines of ha dethat are guilty of rape and john kerry is accusing the marines of committing terrorism acts by going into the homes of iraqis
at midnight in the dark terrorizing looking for al-qaeda for whoever was there. yeah, i mean look, i hate to be honest with you here but i do question their commitment to national security. i question their commitment to the u.s. military. they will put their political survival and political power being gained over anything and use anybody and throw anybody away to achieve it. >> chris: you said they should give the commanders on the ground as many troops as they need to win. but a staunch conservative like george will says look, afghanistan has been a dysfunctional country, it as corrupt country and we can beat the taliban and beat al-qaeda without this huge commitment of new troops. >> well, i don't know that. i don't have the benefit of knowledge that george will has. so i trust the experts and to me they are the people in the u.s. military.
these are -- you know, the surge in iraq, same thing we went, it worked. the democrats were the ones opposed to it. they said it would fail, it wouldn't work and by all measure it did. now, the basic same theories are being suggested for afghanistan and well. the thing that bothers me about this is we are there. whether we should have gone or what we have done heretoforeis now irrelevant. there is omaha bank one thick to do, win. what -- there is only one thing to do, win. what about afghanistan? easy, we lose. >> chris: you made no secret to the fact that you oppose the public option, government run insurance to compete with private insurers. with tens of millions still uninsured do you think that the government has any moral obligation to find some way to cover them? >> there is a way to insurance the uninsured without doing any of what we are doing. if that were the objective then
i would be full for it. this is not about insurancing the uninsured. this is not about healthcare. this is about steal, one sixth of the u.s. private sector and putting it under the control of the federal government. and when they get the healthcare bill if they do, that is the easiest fastest way to be able to regulate every aspect of human behavior. it will all have some related cost to healthcare. what you drive, what you eat, where you live, what you do. there will be penalties for violating regulation. it will be the biggest snatch of freedom and liberty that yet occurred in this country. >> chris: in 30 seconds, how do you insurance the uninsured without the big overhaul? >> run the numbers and the real number of uninsured that want insurance is 12 million. make some of the unspent stimulus. we have 85% of the stimulus unspent. take some of it. for 35 to $40 billion a year you could insurance those people. not two trillion, not
1'" trillion. that is the objective? do it now. >> chris: do you think the individual mandate is constitutional? >> no. >> do you think the government has the right to tell people you are going to get health insurance and if you don't may get it you will pay a penalty? >> i don't think it is constitutional. this is deadly serious stuff. this is a total attempt to remake the country as founded and constituted and it worries me greatly. >> chris: we asked our viewers for questions. >> i love fox viewers, i love them. >> chris: if president obama would agree to an interview what would be your first question? >> why are you doing this? why? what in -- what do you not like about this country that makes you want to inflict this kind of damage on it? >> chris: lucille goldman sent this question. did you vote for john mccain in the 2008 presidential
election? >> i did. >> chris: really? >> of course. >> chris: but you have been so critical of john mccain. >> yes, but, you weigh the two. i don't think -- there are a lot of people saying there is no difference if in two parties. a lot of people think that and they really believe it but i don't know of any republican who would try to take over one sixth of the u.s. economy. i don't know one republican who would put forth this irresponsible cap and trade bill. i don't know one republican that would actually do that as something he initiated. >> chris: let's talk about the state of the gop. recent fox news poll found that the approval rating for the president has dropped to 49% but meanwhile, only 25% of people approve of congressional republicans. as voters have growing doubts about the president and his policies, why aren't they turning to the opposition? is there something that the
republican party lacks in the way of a positive, affirmative agenda? >> the republican party needs to learn something. if it does country club blue blood moderate it is going to lose. if it goes regan conservative and commits to it, it will win landslides. >> chris: why aren't people turning to the republicans? >> right now there is no central republican leader to turn to and there is no central republican message. the republican message is sort of muddied. what do they stand for. in right now it is opposition to obama. >> chris: isn't that enough? >> well, it may be in 2010. i actually do think that there will be a revolt against the democratic party and against obama even if voters in 2010 have nothing to vote for. >> do you think that the republican party, do you see it as a big tent party or small tent party? >> big tent. >> chris: but you sound like you are saying to the moderates particularly on social issues
if we lose you, too bad. >> i'm an american. i love this country and i want everybody in it to do well. the conservative message is not okay, hispanics we have this plan for you and women we this plan for you. that is what the republican party is trying to do is emulate group politics and the history is why be democrat. let them handle that and let's go after the big tent that is the country and let's go get every person in this country, i don't care what their race is, what their gender is, what their sexual orientation is. if they are told that there is somebody that is going to lead this country or party that is actually going to strengthen them and give them the tools and get out of their way and let them make this country work the republican party can attract a majority like they haven't seen since the '80s. >> in the time magazine article about glenn beck they wrote just as you found your place, that beck is tapping into the fear and anger on the right
today. is that why you think he struck such a cord because he taps into the fear and the anger of the conservatives today? >> there is a lot of fear. there is a tremendous amount of fear in the country over what is happening in washington to individual liberty and freedom. he may well have tapped into that. the anger, i think that is sometimes overplayed because it has become a cliche for the left to say angry white men as a way of denigrating conservative energy and ideology. but there is no question there is a lot of anger and if he has tapped into that, i wouldn't be surprised. >> chris: when you look at glenn beck and see this explosion, what do you feel? >> well, i'm kind of proud. >> no o envy, no competition. >> no, no, no. my radio audience is astro gnomically high. look at, 1988 there was nobody doing what i'm doing.
nobody. you had cnn was the only cable network and you had the three networks and newspapers and now look. now, look what is out. all of this conservative media. conservative talk radio. television. fox news. the conservative blog osphere. if i wanted to have my ego be as big as obama's is i could say look what i created. any success out there on my side, conservative media, if it going to help us get this country back, bring more in. >> chris: let's talk about you. you said recently i actually thank goode for my addiction -- thank god for my addiction to pain pills because i learned more in rehab than i would have otherwise. what did you learn. >> one of the things was trying to be what people wanted me to be or expected me to be because i wanted to be liked. everybody is raised to want to
be liked and loved. interestingly, my radio career, i don't care. i figure that out. it was a tough thing to learn to take as a measure of success being hated, it is like 20 to 30% of the country because nobody is raised for that. but in my personal life the thing i learned most was that the only way to have real intimacy with people, real solid relationships is to be who you are. that will attract the kind of people worthy of having intimate relationships, good friendships with. >> chris: and without putting you on the couch, are you saying that the addiction came from some sense of personal inadequacy? >> of course. i wasn't good enough. i was masking unhappiness elsewhere and not dealing with the real reasons i was unhappy in my personal life. i had never experienced the kind of euphoria that i got from a pain pill. i think the only time that i
really with all of the success i have had the only time i had the kind of euphoria is when i made the high school football team as a sophomore. i was never prouder of myself. all my career achievements did not create that for me because you have to maintain it every day. it is not something you earn and that it lasts forever. i don't look back, i don't stop and think about what i accomplished because there is always tomorrow. so i don't have time for the euphoria, i don't have time for the man, am i something. i'm too busy trying to meet everybody's expectations tomorrow. the pain pills came along and masked all the feelings of inadequacy that i had. now, after just seven weeks of this place in arizona, i had zero feelings of inadequacy. it has not been replaced by an irresponsible ego, it is just a confidence in who i am. >> chris: you signed a new contract last year, eight years
reportedly 400 million. >> reportedly, right. >> chris: so i will go to the horse's mouth. true? >> it could be true. i'm a guy who earns a percentage of what i generate every year. there are some guarantees but $400 million is not guaranteed. i have to earn that. >> chris: but you could earn $400 million. >> i'm ahead of schedule in fact. >> chris: don't get me wrong. i think you are great broadcaster. how could you possibly be worth that kind of money? >> very simply. value is determined by what somebody will pay you to do what you are going to do. i'm probably worth more. i'm not complaining. do not misunderstand. the whole question, see i'm a capitalist. you are worth whatever you can get, you are worth whatever you value is and that is determined by what someone is willing to pay you for it. the people that invest in me
get results correspond their expectations. >> chris: you believe in the free market. >> i do. >> chris: let's talk about the nfl decision to drop you as a possible owner. what about the argument look billionairench of billion air owners sitting around and sailing rush limbaugh is not good enough for business. is that the free market? >> that didn't happen. my name was leaked as being part of a group, roger gudel the commissioner citeds a six-year-old quote that i made about donovan mcnabb, he got it all wrong. i never got -- i never got past first base. i mean -- >> chris: what do you think that was about? what do you think happened? >> i think it is actually about the fact that the nfl is about to lose its current collective bar gaining agreement with the players and guess who happens to be the new executive director of the players'
association. a guy named demorris smith who is part of obama's transition team. he has suggested that the congress, white house might get involved to stop a player owner lockout. i think -- and he got involved in this, too, he was out participating in the spreading of quotes i didn't say, warning gudell and the owners. i will think it was a warning shot across the brow saying to the nfl look, we are going to be close to running this league, not you and we don't want this guy here. i don't take this personally but do i think it was a bunch of cowardice all the way along. >> chris: you started talking about vice president bide then week and said to your producers now get the bleep button because i may go over the line and then you censored yourself. what do you think of joe biden?
>> poppous. a bit of a wind bag and wrong. >> chris: about? >> he says well, we guessed wrong with the stimulus jobs. anybody with a brain could have told you the stimulus plan wasn't going to work. he is a walking comedy of errors. >> chris: sarah palin, you said that you admire her back bone. do you really think she is ready to be president? >> well, yes, i do. see, i'm -- one thing i do not do is follow conventional wisdom and the conventional wisdom in sarah palin is she is not smart enough and needs to bone up on the issues and alaska, where is that, she doesn't have the pedigree. she is the only thing that provided any kind of a spark for the republican party. this is not an endorsement but i do have profound respect for sarah palin. there are not many politicians who have been through what she has been put through and still
able to smile and be ebullient and upbeat. this woman i think is pretty tough. >> chris: finally, some politics. you predict a possible bloodbath for democrats in 2010? >> i really do. i know there is an eruption waiting to happen at the ballot box. i know that a majority of the people in the country are oh positive for salmonellad to every single agenda eye dem -- opposed to every single agenda eye dem that obama has proposed. they are not in touch with what is happening. if they find out there is this kind of angst they look at the voters with contempt. well, you are not sophisticated enough to understand how brilliant obama is and they don't want any part of it and it going to be bigger than anybody thinks. especially if healthcare gets passed and they get cap and trade and start going down the global warming fissco track.
>> if you had to bet now, does barack obama win at the polls in 2012? >> if i had to bet now, he would not. >> chris: any clue he will beat him? >> i have no clue of that. >> if he does win, how is rush limbaugh going to handle seven more years of barack obama? >> one of the questions i always get is and the obama, aren't the democrats in power good for the business. >> i'm out to get the highest ratings i get every day regardless of the news. it is my talent that draws the crowd. the news is incidental to it. no, i'm worried, seriously worried about the future of the country. i never put my personal success in front of what i think is something this that sass territoriesous to the country. >> chris: and seven more years of barack obama? >> it would be painful. it would literally be painful. every day you get up and there
is a new potential threat to liberty and freedom being launched by this man and his administration. it has got to be -- some days i'm in radio and some days i feel like i'm in the trenches in a war. no bull lets being fired but trenches in a war. i want paul revere. i want as many people to hear what i think the problems are. i believe the people of the country eventually will make it work and get what they want i do believe in the democratic process and the vote. >> chris: rush, thank you. >> thank you,. >> chris: more of our interview with rush limbaugh, including what he thinks about this tuesday's elections and you can watch it by going to our blog, fox newssunday.com. up next, this week, two governor races and a special election for congress, will it be a referendum on president
>> chris: the center of the political universe this tuesday is governor's races in virginia and new jersey and a special congressional election in upstate new york. joining us from richmond, virginia, is fox news chief political correspondent, carl cameron. what is the latest? >> hi, chris. well, if new york, the word is that the republican has bowed out of the race in order to let the right unify behind the new york state conservative party candidate and keep the 23rd congressional district of new york out of democratic hands. long-time state assembly woman dee dee scozzafava, prochoice and progag marriage dropped out
three days before the elex. she was trailing doug hofstra mapp who has been strongly backed by the tea party movement and various conservative notables around the country. to make sure that democrat bill owen could not pull off an upset in the red congressional district by dividing the right, scozzafava baled out and that will likely assure a win for hoffman. and then there is new jersey where governor jon corzine is in trouble. democrats are counting on the president to save the election. republican chris christie led the polls for months. in recent weeks, independent candidate daggett got some pull in the pull polls. this one is a virtual dead heat. is not the case in virginia. old dominion is shaping up like a republican blowout. bob mcdonnell has had a double
digit lead in the polls for weeks and deeds has been unable to energize democrats. new jersey is looking like a nail biter, chris. but republicans and even some democrats acknowledge that it looks like new york's 23rd and virginia could be cause for celebration for republicans tuesday night. chris? >> chris: carl cameron reporting from virginia. thanks for that. while barack obama's name is not on the ballot, political experts will analyze the results for what they may tell us about public support for the president. we turn to fox news chief white house correspondent major garrett. >> i asked the president secretary on friday, and he said the white house will take the long view for tuesday's elections. when you have three elections the white house was deeply involved in and the white house is taking the long view you can't say the white house is optimistic going into the voting and it is not. one thing to keep an eye on there, the unaffiliated voters
there. there are 2.4 million unaffiliated voters in. right now chris christie the republican is running 51-29 ahead of governor corzine. if unaffiliated break for chris cristee that could be a bad sign for obama base he attracted a lot of unaffiliated voters in 2008. in virginia, the white house says the less said about that case the better. they don't believe deeds has run a good campaign and blame his problems there for distancing himself from the obama white house. they con cede that hoffman is going to win there. luring john -- it could be a long and not so happy night for the obama white house come tuesday. chris? >> major garrett reporting from the white house and the rain. major, thanks for that. >> you got it. >> chris: tune in to america's
we are about to deliver on the promis promise of making affordable quality healthcare available for all americans. >> tell me how we going to fix our healthcare system with 1990 pages of bureaucracy. >> chris: speaker nancy pelosi and republican leader john boehner previewing the battle set to take place this week in the house over the democrat's new healthcare reform bill. it is time now for our sunday regulars. brit hume, fox news senior political analyst and contributors mariu mara liassol
kristol of the weekly standard and one williams also from national public radio. house democrats unveil the healthcare bill that they going to bring to the floor this week and there is also a disagreement about price. democrats say the total price tag is $894 billion. that is under president obama's ceiling but the congressional budget office says the real price tag is $1.50 trillion. brit, does this compromise bill that nancy pelosi put out, does it resolve the differences between liberal democrats and moderate democrats and will is have enough support to get through the house? >> we'll see. it will be close. she will need to release a lot of her more moderate members to vote no. she can afford to lose i think about 40 of them if she holds everybody else and still pass the bill. i'm not sure she quite has a vote yet. but you have to figure with the
kind of leverage that the speaker can imply that she will have them. even so, i think it will be close. there is a chance it could fail in the house at which point theyville to tinker with the bill and water it down and so forth, perhaps get the costs down. the senate on the other side is another story entirely. >> i think it would be stunning if she couldn't get this through the house. this is the house of representatives where all the rules favor the majority. the public option in the house bill now is not the medicare style public option that liberal democrats favored. it is a public option but allows the rates that hospitals and doctors are reimbursted to be negotiated, not pegged to medicare. i think this will pass in the house. but i do think the final bill that finally comes out of conference assuming we get something from the senate is going to look quite different. >> chris: bill, you never liked the democratic healthcare plan
in its various iterations and you say this combines the most unpopular democratic and republican proposals in the last generation. >> the medicare cuts of the gingrich revolution. the pelosi cuts dwarf the gingrich cuts. it has tax hikes. to t. cost them the congress in 1949 and nancy pelosi pulled off a great feat, you call it a compromise vote. combined healthcare and medicare cuts in the same bill and does nothing to improve the average american's healthcare or improve the cost of the average american's insurance. at the moment where we have an experiment, ongoing experiment in government healthcare, the
swine flu epidemic. if you like how the government has run swine flu with lines and queues and promises that haven't come through, if you like the government swine flu program you will love pelosi care. >> chris: i want to ask you a follow-up on that, bill. do you believe that the frustration that the people are feeling with the swine flu evacuation seen and the fact that they are not -- vaccine and the fact that they are not able to get it the way they thought they going to. do you think that could help the move for healthcare reform. >> they are not able to get it the way they were told they would be able to by the obama administration. it crystallizes a vivid set of scenes on the local news and vivid set of experiences for actual pregnant moms, i know a couple waiting in line for two hours and they tell me sorry, we have run out and go take your chances. it makes vivid what government run healthcare will be like.
>> chris: bill kristol is on the side of pregnant moms and little toddlers. >> you can't beat that, motherhood, apple pie and baseball. there is a huge difference between hurricane katrina and government failure and here in terms of the delivery of vaccine. this is a matter of private manufacturers not living up to promises. you can say the obama administration might have foreseen it and done a better job of preparing for it. i don't think most americans are blaming the obama administration for this as they said president bush's administration failed to properly understand or pay attention to what fema was not doing with regard to helping americans with katrina. i don't think it has now impact on the healthcare debate. i don't think anybody is connecting the two, except people who like the status quo and want to be o obstructionist
and. >> chris: some people are saying all the fuss over the public option is greatly underplayed. the cbo, omaha bank si only sie will end up on the public option and it may have higher premiums than the private insurers. have we all been guilty ofover playing the? >> it is possible. the argument that suggests that the public option will eventually drive private insurance out of the market is a reasonable argument in the sense that the government with the power of taxation behind it can force the prices for the premiums down as low as the government wants and as low as congress wants and ultimately can make it so cheap that employers will push people onto it and people will be attracted to it because of cost. that doesn't mean it will work very well. there is one other point here worth making. bill mentioned the proposed medicare cuts which are designed as a way to pay for
the program to the tune of nearly half a trillion dollars. no one in their right mind who has followed congress over the past quarter century and beyond believes such cuts will ever happen. which means that this bill is a -- is for all the talk about deficit neutrality, it almost certainly not deficit neutral and will add massively to the deficit at a time when the public for the first time in quite awhile is really very worried about the deficit. either way you slice that it is a problem. in you believe the medicare cuts are going to happen, a lot of seniors will rebell against that and maybe others as well. if you don't believe it, the people worried about the deficit and there are more than there used to be, will be upset about it as well. >> chris: the public option, maybe it is overplayed, maybe it isn't overplayed. the poll numbers are all over the place. your sense is, the public option popular with the american people or not. >> i think depending on how you ask the question, certain polls can get an answer.
>> chris: what do you really think. >> all that matters is whether 60 senators want a bill with a public option in it. it doesn't matter what the majority of americans say so some poll. i think what is interesting when harry reid decided on his own that the best way to get a bill through the senate was to include a public option from the beginning so that the opponents, the moderate democrats would have to remove it by amendment on the senate floor. >> you don't believe that he thought that putting the public option in was the best way to pass it? don't you think he put that in to appease his base. >> that is what i'm trying to say. it has to die an honorable death on the senate floor and can't be removed in advance. liberals have to have their sort of day in court and if they can get 60 votes to defend it, it will fan. >> we will be discussing this over thanksgiving dinner and under the christmas tree. but coming up, we will discuss the breaking political news in afghanistan. and our panel handicaps this
>> the difficult work of p the -- >> the difficult work of building a future has begun in new jersey and across america. >> what it means on the national stage, it means the sames new jersey and a chance to elect a governor who will return fiscal sanity to new jersey like we have to have returned to the country. >> chris: a taste of how the new jersey governor's election tuesday has become a national contest and we are back now with our panel. before we get to american politics, let's discuss the breaking news out of afghanistan. we learned today that the challenger abdullah abdullah dropped out of the run off because he says he tried to get reforms made, by the karzai
government in the election process to present -- prevent the massive fraud that went on last august. and, that the karzai government refused. brit, how much does it complicate this president's efforts to find a legitimate afternoon partner to work with now that there will be no run off or there will only be one candidate. >> it looks to me as if karzai will now be tainted by this process. perhaps not as much as he was by the one before. he will be the evident winner. but, a lot of people will think it was an illegitimate nonelection, really and it complicates things, the legitimate partner, i would note, however, that the way the administration and its supporters seem to frame the issue now is, if you have to have your legitimate partner in place and doing well before you make the commitment of troops to suppress the violence is the reverse of most
counterinsurgency doctrines, you suppress the violence and all the other good things follow and they seem to have turned it on its head and now it givings the president another excuse, not to follow through on what general mcchrystal wants. >> we have been there 8 years trying to suppress the violence. >> and for a long time juan we succeeded. >> and what happened? why is it karzai refuses, it seems to me, to accept basic democratic principles of a legitimate election without fraud. i mean, i agree with you, regardless of whether or not we have a stable government the united states has national interests in making sure that the taliban and al qaeda do not take root there. but, it is really a difficult situation, when you have not only political corruption but narcocorruption. >> chris: you know what, afternoon politics will there be next week and let's talk about the u.s. election which will not be here next week, mara, big news, interestingly, what we
thought in the race, upstate new york the congressional election, the liberal republican, dede scozzafa scozzafava, mabowed out and the democrat, they've not seen a democrat since 1852. >> it is' big race, the only one out there and is a microcosm of the civil war occurring inside the republican party and one of the morals of the story here is primaries are good things and there should have been one. for the republicans in that race and there wasn't. dede scozzafava was hand-picked by a county chairman and if there was a primary, hoffman would have been the nominee and the question is what lesson will republicans nationally take from this and certainly i think it will say the right, grassroots right of the republican party is energized and has a lot of clout but is this the formula to win election across the country? don't -- >> but, the democrats will say, and already are saying, it shows
there is no room for moderates or liberals in the republican party. >> at the same time in virginia you have a republican candidate, that is running a completely different kind of race, playing down social issues, that is bob mcdonald talking about transportation education, and jobs, the way they've won swing districts in the past and you'll have two dinner models and will be interesting to see which the republicans pick. >> chris: let's let's look at the two governors' races coming up, the first in new jersey the incumbent democratic governor corzine on the left and chris christie on the right and according to the polls, too close to call and the virginia governor's race between the republican and -- on the left there, bob mcdonald who apparently has a double-digit lead in the polls over the democrat, creigh deeds and your sense of how the states will go. >> mcdonald will win big and the whole ticket will win big and
the republicans will pick up seats in the house, a substantial number and christie ekes it out in new jersey, he'll get the -- look at the polls, it looks like the voters gdz -- >> chris dagget is the -- >> he's a real factor in the race. >> what is interesting, is corzine is so unpopular he loses and hoffman works, in this 23rd and the big picture, there will be a 20 point swing, comparing obama's vote in 2008 and the vote in 2009 and obama carried new jersey by 20 points and that will be close and carried virginia 7 points and mcdonald will win by a dozen or so and obama carried new york 23 and it's not an easy race and is complicated to get people to vote for a third party ballot an hoffman sweeps it there and the swing from 2008 to 2009 is huge. >> chris: we can see, get ideas how the republican -- the r.n.c. will talk about this on tuesday
night. but the point i want to make, juan, there were times, 1993 when republicans won both governors' race and previewed the big republican revolution in 1994 and in '01 the democrats won both of the races and then, proceeded to lose seats. the next year, how much can eread into it in terms of a national statement or is it local candidates and issues into it is local candidates for the most part and what you are looking at are things in new jersey like property taxes and the like and chris christie hurt himself by going back on a pledge to cut back on tax and he doesn't know what he'll do and that will result in what corzine is doing better than what bill predict and overall it is about turnout and who's energized and you don't see minority and black and his hank voters turning out the way they did for barack obama and the youth vote, which was so important to barack obama, i don't think it is energized in terms of giving money and a big difference between what mcdonald has in
virginia, and what creigh deeds has been able to raise. so to me a lot of this is, we could look at big issues, in terms of the minutiae of politics and money and et cetera but, in terms of does it reflect on the health care debate? no, does it reflect on anything that -- to do with the president's ability to handle what is to come in terms of climate control and immigration, no. >> when barack obama was elected it was constantly asserted by many who work with him and supported him what had been a center right country was now a center left country and they was dubious proposition and there was a survey out this week, from gallup, mirroring the survey gallop took in june, that showed 40% of americans define themselves as conservatives and 35 as moderate and some polls have it the other way around and liberals are down 2 positive and if you are seen as too liberal in america these days are in trouble and the democratic party is seen as too liberal. >> chris: thank you, panel, see
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